I'm looking for some extra feedback about
adding an endurance catagory into the
psycowpath series this year.
enduro catagories grew last year, and the trend seems to be spreading.
I'm hoping to get you guys talking about it.
pro's and con's
so head over to this link. go to the top and start reading,
then please chim in on this pro's and con's
please.
thankyou
have a nice day
19 comments:
3PO's asking a good question, link in and speak your mind.
I am lucky to finish the two hour expert race. I was pretty bummed out when Midwest Fat Tire went to a four+ hour format, I missed racing at several of my favorite venues in Missouri because I was not interested in the endurance category. The same 3-5 mile loop for more than a couple hours gets pretty boring. A longer loop could be a different story.
Again I have said it before, I prefer to see more people racing the categories we have without watering down the events with more classes. 2005 really felt to me like it was more watered down (with too many classes) than in years past. This could just be because by the time the Expert Races were finished you could have shot a cannon off and not hit anyone.
yeah it was a bummer to see everyone leave while the experts were getting started. We brought in food vendor, music, but still most people leave, even from the far off venues. Not sure how to change that.
I don' think adding classes is a good idea either.... you need to first have more racers to support it. But I can envision seperate dates/venues for endurance events.... see my latest post at CVO's blog.
If there's on reason for people to stick around they won't.
Do either of you come early to watch the sports and beginners? No. So why would they hang around.
Pyscowpath needs to morph with the sport. It's been too stagnate for too long.
your're still missing the point Ryan. The question is how to bring more people out to the event. Yeah, you may lose 2 people from each category, but you'll gain 20+ people that wouldn't have shown up otherwise.
There's too many dates on the calendar already. Fewer dates and bigger events are the way to go.
amen mod. rf - xc racing is a dying breed. unless something major changes, racer numbers will continue to dwindle at the psycowpath races if it doesn't start offering a more appealing product for racers to spend their money on.
consider this: you'll get my entry fee money at every race that has an enduro category. otherwise, you won't. period.
I'll be at every race I can this next year.
I'll race every race that I can,
I usualy like to show up for the beginners and cheer them on. and I usualy stay for the end of the race,
usualy cuz I have to sober up to drive home.
I don't know how to make people come early, and make them stay late, other than free beer.
yup,
free beer is always the answer. If you offered free beer, you'd have more spectators,
and those beginner and sport guys would stick around.
and those expert guys would be there all night...
but allas I don't think we're gonna get a beer sponser to help us get loaded at bike races.
I did however really enjoy splitting up the sport and expert catagory this past year.
the sport guys all dug it cuz we get to watch the fast guys. and that rocks.
free beer, is there anything it can't do?
If you want more younger or beginner racers, lower the entry fee. Why should juniors pay 15 + 10 = 25 to race? Why charge $10 one day license to juniors when a full license costs them $30. Last year the juniors raced free and paid only for their one day license.
This years races were well organized but appeared to be too much of a fund raiser.
Mod, once again your totally clueless, and make comments with nothing to back it up. Prior to this years change in start times I always showed up early for the beginner races and when I raced beginner I always stayed for the expert and sport races to watch. So get a clue!
I am a little disappointed in Matt. You were one of the guys who motivatd me to bust my ass training to get better because of two conversations we had, the first at Red Wing (where you didn't do so well) and the second at Breckinridge where you kicked ass. You told me how you knew after Red Wing it was time to get focused, you didn't tell me you needed less competition. You might not remember this, but it changed the way I prepared for the race season. The Psycowpath turn out this year was probably as good as any year past, the only class that was smaller was the expert class and that did bum me out. If you were at the Platte River Party I think Tilford made the message pretty clear, "you go where the money is". Right now road races pay better, deeper etc and have bigger turn outs. As for mountain biking as a whole according to NORBA the numbers are way up. In Nebraska the overall people racing is up, its just more on the road side. Thats the target market, if you get those guys interested again, the numbers will go up.
With all this said I would support a couple of enduro events, but do them on different days from the regular race series. And Matt I can't think of anything I would like better than seeing you get focused again and kick my ass.
Obviously I am clueless Shim and obviously you are a better man than me. I don't think I've ever showed up early enough to catch the beginner event.
The Expert Category shrunk here because half the field is not Expert, it's Semi-Pro, and that's all there is to it.
After chatting about this yesterday, it's clear no one wants to race against 10 people, or even 20 for that matter. But I would love to see a 30+ Expert field show up for any of our races.
I think we should keep the same number events on the calendar but limit the Psycowpath series to just 4, at least that way people can try other disciplines like Enduro's or SS and not have it effect their points.
It sounds like there is a handful of people who are still interested in coming to events but aren't interested in traditional ones.
Guys the big picture is will an enduro event work? We just need to try and find out. 3 races this year plus the 12 BO race. Manawa wil work you can add river levees into to make it longer. Different weekends from Pyscowpath. We can split up the work easy enough. The Lincoln folks put one on, Omaha does one and we both do one. Maybe we just form our own association to do this. Let the other promoters know what were doing pick some weekends and lets roll!
shim, you've missed the point with me. i'm not the same person i was in 1997. i don't aspire to dominate the xc racing scene.
that said, i'm not looking for "less competition" either (as you so eloquently accuse me of). shit dude, if you're such a man, jump up to the enduro class. i guarantee i'll kick your ass. oh, but wait.. you admit yourself that you can barely finish a 2 hour expert race. so how is it somehow easier for me to succeed in a 4 hour race than it is/was for either of us to succeed in a 2 hour event? will it take less traiining/dedication on my part to win or place well in enduro races? hell no it won't! i think it'll probably be even harder... but it's something i actually want to pursue and get better at.
i've been there/done that with xc racing. i don't feel like i've got anything to prove to myself, or anyone else there. but enduro racing? i've had some encouraging results, but i'm totally at the front-end of the learning curve. that's exciting to me.
go ahead and keep racing and dominating your little xc events shim. i'm going on to bigger and better things.
... and i don't believe for a minute that mod is clueless. if anything, you've proved your ignorance through your comments on this thread.
whoa, guys,
chill,
no reason to be name calling
or starting shit
especialy in a local forum amungst your pers and buddies.
so please,
relax,
be calm,
save it for race day
Whoa dude, I pay you several compliments and try to get you motivated and you call me names, ouch! I guess I better not be looking for your DVD in my stocking this year.
Merry Christmas Matt,
Love,
Shim
PS, Mod is still clueless.
i actually kind of think that enduro classes' appeal to those types who a). race road bikes and b) have a little bit of interest or curiousity in racing mountain bikes ... why? for starters, the longer races provide a venue where a road racer can use their fitness to an advantage. if your "focused" on racing expert level xc mtn. bike races and you know what your doing, your gonna "focus" on a race of that length and nothing else, hopefully. maximum output for 2.5 hours was always my goal - but what do i know? road races are often 4 hours in length, so roadies gotta train for that. the resulting fitness translates nicely to a 4 or 6 hour mtb xc format, in my experience (firecracker 50, laramie enduro, etc. and so forth). the other reason it appeals to roadies or others new to the sport - the technical aspect of mtn bike races becomes less of a factor towards the end result when your out 4 or 6 hours. very few people would bobble or suffer on the same technical piece of trail after going by it 10 times or more. you get the course pretty dialed by the end of the event, and in imho that can become more fun and not all that boring ... also, the time required to fix a flat or other mechanical setback becomes less of an obstacle to overcome (w/respect to catching the competition) when you've got 3 hours left to race as opposed to 45 minutes.
just a couple different things to consider when thinking about how an enduro event might attract folks who otherwise wouldn't show up for a typical xc day of racing.
OH YEAH! Well you can take it and shove it up...
I love bikes, racing, not racing. I'll still work you boys on descents, hell, it's all I got left in dez legz.
ah, nothing like going downhill fast,
it takes
dez nutz
to keep up with doz legz
anyone can go uphill fast, or ride for a long time,
it takes "DEZ NUTZ"
and no fear, and some good mental ability to go down fast,
and that's the best on a bike,
dude,
it's the whole dez legz that got me going.
mmmmmm
7 more months till downhillin in Colorado on 50 pound rigs in body armor....
yippee
then I come home and put Dez Nuts, and Dez Legz in a cast in Dat Emergency room.
i'm sorry shim. i was out of line. i am frustrated that you're not seeing my/our point on enduro racing. that's all.
i was thinking a lot about what we both wrote while i was at lunch, and it was not my intent to come off like a jerk. you have every right to have your opinion.
i just wish you could see that staging enduro races isn't something that would detract from your beloved xc racing -- it would add to the overall quality of the event, and would draw back many guys (like me) who are on the cusp of dropping off the racing map if things stay as they are.
again, my apologies for being a rude jerk towards you shim. i think you're an awesome bike racer, and it is touching to me that i inspired you back in the late '90s. i remember the conversation you wrote about in 1998, after i'd won the national at breckenridge... i thought i had the tiger by the tail.
but somewhere along the line, about two years after we had that conversation (during the 2000 season), i realized that being a professional mountain bike racer wasn't my dream anymore. i wasn't willing to make the personal and/or physical sacrifices it was going to take to make the next step.
i was lucky though. in 2001 and 2002 i was able to ride the awesome wave of fitness i'd built in colorado, but after getting injured in 2003, that advantage disappeared.
i don't really want/need it back either. i don't long to hit 195bpm with a big thing of snot hanging from my chin for two hours to win an xc race. i'm comfortable not being as fast as i was, because i have a lot more fun on the bike now.
racing a 4 or more hour marathon races will allow me to make a lot better use of the tactical experience, current training and cumulitive miles i've ridden. hopefully i'll end up being better-than-average at racing these types of events, but i don't know that yet. that's the challenge.
just because that's not your dream doesn't mean that it isn't a valid dream for myself, cornbread, avey, endurosnob, mw and anyone else who so chooses. the venues will exist for us to race enduros too -- it's just a matter of whether it's in our home state, or elsewhere. i'd like to be able to see you on the course during a race and be able to cheer you on when you pass me (since of course you'd be going faster racing the xc race).
thanks for reading chapter one of my new novel...
mg
Group hug! Group hug!!!
Wonderful! There are "too many dates on the calendar" and "I won't race unless there is an Enduro class." This is rich. Way to support the scene...'do it my way or I am going home.'
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